Author Topic: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds  (Read 423 times)

DadaOrwell

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NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« on: February 24, 2006, 12:52:55 PM »
Interested to get the WendyMcelroy forum take on this:

Manchester, New Hampshire
Feb. 14, 2006

Two New Hampshire Free Staters chose arrest last week rather than allow themselves to be herded into a "Free Speech Zone" while the President was in Manchester. One of the protesters was carrying a sign advocating New Hampshire secession, both were in a non-secure area where civilians were milling around unmolested.

Keene Free Press article/pics:
http://keenefreepress.editme.com/LuncheonPoliceState

Manchester Union Leader article (link is split into two lines):
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Two+arrested+as
+protesters+gather&articleId=ff16795b-bd46-4bc7-bc0d-619d8f8946fc

Free Staters (www.FreeStateProject.org) are libertarian activists who move to New Hampshire from other parts of the country because they consider it the state with the most freedom.  About 150 have moved here since 2003, with 7,000 more pledged to follow.  So far Federal and Local officials have made a total of nine arrests in response to civil disobedience by Free Staters.

57Fury

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2006, 03:03:51 PM »
DadaOrwell:

   It is beyond me, how anyone can think that the "Free State Project" will be allowed to succeed.

   Just sit back and think of twenty ways the Federales can undermine FSP and bring it to a standstill.  Bet your bippy they've got _hundreds_ of such ways lined up.

   I was speaking to a nice young lady at an ISP in NH, and I asked her if she's heard about the FSP.

   Yes she had, and she wasn't at all keen on outsiders coming in, taking her home state, and making it into something else.

   Not hard to foresee Federal Marshals stepping in to protect long-time NH residents from this attack by ISP "terrorists" on "our freedoms."

    A careful study of the history of Israel and Palestine would repay effort.  Jews were returning to the Holy Land.  ISPers can't plead that.

Tony

H. Rearden

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2006, 05:04:59 PM »
A free speech zone is anywhere I happen to be standing that is not privately owned property. The police violated the free speech right of the man and woman who they arrested. I have on a few occassions participated in income tax protest on or near April 15 at a post office. One year someone in the group prior to my arrival at the post office was approached by a postal employee who was in management. The postal employee told him to leave. He told him , "no". The postal employee pushed him and then walked back inside the post office. We contacted the Post Master of that particular post office which is 1 of 2 of the main main post offices in the county. There are many others but there are 2 main ones that process most of the mail. It makes sense to protest at the main ones for more exposure. The Post Master wrote us a letter of apology. That is probably unusual. The post office admitted that their employee was wrong.

                                            $

gdp

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2006, 05:42:23 PM »
A free speech zone is anywhere I happen to be standing that is not privately owned property. The police violated the free speech right of the man and woman who they arrested.

Sadly, as of 2001-Dec-06, as Authorized under the "USA PATRIOT" and "Homeland Security" Acts, the Attorney General of the United States Officially Disagrees with your interpretation of the 1st Ammendment, and has authorized your arrest if you attempt to protest Bushnevik Policy anywhere outside of the Secret Service's "Designated Free Speech Zones" during any time that His Imperial Bossness Geedubya the 1st happens to be in town.

If you attempt to protest against Bushnev Administration Policies outside of a DFSZ before His Imperial Bossness has arrived or after he leaves, you will be charged with "Trespassing, Obstructing Access, and Disorderly Conduct,” and hauled away by the Local Police or the Secret Service so that His Imperial Bossness's sensitive and fragile soul cannot be Offended by seeing your dissent against His Imperial Policies.

If you attempt to protest Bushnevik Policy outside a DFSZ while His Imperial Bossness is Holding Court in your municipality, you can be charged with "Making A Threat Against The President of The United States," and could potentially find yourself summarily stripped of your U.S. Citizenship and declared an "Enemy Combatant" at the Sole Discretion of AG Gonzales --- at which time you can be hauled off to "Club Gitmo" for an Involuntary Visit of Indefinite Length...
"...If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong..." -- Richard Feynman
"...As a Scientist, I'd much rather have questions I can't answer,
    than answers I can't question..."
--Max Tegmark

Teresa

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2006, 05:43:38 PM »
While I applaud the intentions of the Free Staters, like 57Fury, I do not see it succeeding.  First, expanding on what 57Fury mentioned in his post, New Englanders are very clannish and suspicious of "outsiders," which means anyone who is not from New England.  Newcomers are not welcomed up there, even under the best of circumstances, and certainly not under the auspices of taking someone else's home and completely changing it.  This project would have been better off picking a state where most of the population is from someplace else.

Secondly, I simply don't see the majority of the other 7,000 who have "pledged" to move up there doing so, even if they want to.  New England rivals California as the most expensive area to live in the country.  Most of the remaining 7,000 FS'ers probably can't even afford to live up there, and then there's the matter of jobs.  Not just getting a job up there, but getting a job that pays enough to afford even a modest lifestyle there.  In an expensive area, a good job isn't enough.  You have to have an extraordinary job.

From our disastrous 17 months in Florida, my husband and I are living proof that if you move someplace where there are no jobs in your field, you will sink like a stone, even more so in a place as expensive as New Hampshire.  My personal advice to anyone even considering that move would be to not even consider it unless you have a very good job waiting for you.  Not just the possibility of a job, not just "I think I can get a job," but a job with a concrete start date.  Otherwise, you're going to be too busy trying not to lose everything you have, struggling to survive, to do anything regarding the FSP.

DadaOrwell

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2006, 07:11:56 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys;

H. Reardon wrote:

<<The Post Master wrote us a letter of apology. That is probably unusual.>>

I dunno; the guys at Manchester NH Post Office were pretty cool with us last year when we protested on "their" property.   It probably varies from place to place.   Fed officials and workers are not always a-holes they just eat up my money that's my main complaint.   I don't take it personally.

So for those of you who think the Free State thing won't work, what are you doing that seems to be working better?  I'm all ears to hear of anything that has been more successful.

DadaOrwell

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2006, 07:18:29 PM »
<<This project would have been better off picking a state where most of the population is from someplace else.>>

Most NH residents are from somewhere else, natives are a minority.  No one really seems to care where you're from, although there is some resistance to liberals from Mass who move up here.  That is one reason why the Governor publicly welcomed the free staters before they picked NH.   He lost the next election over ethical issues unfortunately.  They were pretty minor issues compared to the theft which any state perpetrates, but they don't let you get away with much perceived corruption when you hold prominent office here.

57Fury

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2006, 10:58:36 PM »
GoingtoWilloughby:

   I'd like to hear more about your expedition to Florida.

    I've been to Fort Lauderdale, but with Jebba the Hutt in command I certainly wouldn't want to reside there.  I turned down a trip in a Cessna and a Caddy from coast to coast because it started in Florida.  The place seems just another authoritarian ethical slum.

    What led you to want to live there? Sunshine?  :)

Tony

gmcgath

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2006, 06:42:28 AM »
Miscellaneous notes:
 
First, to state the obvious, it's disgusting.  The notion that the U.S. Constitution applies only in designated "zones" is obscene, and it's disgusting that New Hampshire cops are carrying out the feds' illegal suspension of constitutional rights.

But Congress is working on bypassing the middleman.  Sen. Specter introduced a provision into the Patriot Act which would allow the Secret Police^H^H^H^H^H^HService to arrest protesters directly, and federal courts to convict them of a felony. I don't know whether this provision is still present.

Were these people actually with the Free State Project? I don't see anything that says they were.

When dealing with the cops, screaming at them and calling them Nazis really isn't a good idea.  Especially if they are.

There is, unfortunately, a large segment of the NH population that will probaby support the arrests. A couple of police chiefs have illegally arrested non-citizens for "trespassing" on the town.  They got a lot of support.

Now I'm wondering how many responses I'll get from illiterates who think I support the cops.
The Blog of M'Gath: http://www.mcgath.com/blog

DadaOrwell

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2006, 01:38:50 PM »
gm wrote:

<<Were these people actually with the Free State Project? I don't see anything that says they were.>>

Yes they are, they are friends of mine who signed up for the FSP a few years ago and both moved here in 2004.  You can talk to them yourself at the NHfree.com forums if you want.

DadaOrwell

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2006, 03:19:41 PM »
BTW if any of you want to do something constructive about what has happened, I hope you will consider calling Manchester P.D. and/or the Secret Service, as I have done, to complain.  They both receive Federal tax dollars, so their behavior is your business.  In both cases, when I called I got polite return phone calls and was able to bellyache without anyone getting personal or ugly.

Manchester PD:

Phone: (603) 668-8711
Fax: (603) 628-6145

Email: ManchesterPD@ci.manchester.nh.us

Secret Service Concord, NH branch (do they really NEED a New Hampshire branch?): 
603-626-5631

57Fury

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2006, 04:09:46 PM »
DadaOrwell:

   For what I endeavour to do to make a change for the better:

       www.Agora.demon.co.uk/mission.txt

       www.Agora.demon.co.uk/twelve.txt

       www.Agora.demon.co.uk/agora4.txt

       www.Agora.demon.co.uk/dynamics.txt

   I've tried very hard to find solutions for the "workability" problems of anarchism, thus far without much success. Various Foreign Policy people are interested in these problems, insofar as we have a world anarchy of nation-states, and there are various approaches to resolving the problems.

   I was a co-founder of the Libertarian Alliance in England, in two of its three (or four) incarnations, and I certainly won't be doing that again...

Tony

Teresa

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2006, 03:35:08 PM »
I'd like to hear more about your expedition to Florida.

    I've been to Fort Lauderdale, but with Jebba the Hutt in command I certainly wouldn't want to reside there.  I turned down a trip in a Cessna and a Caddy from coast to coast because it started in Florida.  The place seems just another authoritarian ethical slum.

    What led you to want to live there? Sunshine?  :)

In a nutshell, we were priced out of California's outrageous housing market, where a crack house can easily fetch $330,000.00.  We were attracted to Florida because of the climate and the things we read about the economy there "booming."

Disclaimer:  We lived in Jacksonville, and never got an opportunity to visit any other part of the state.  Therefore, the following description applies to Jax only, and may not apply to Miami, Tampa, etc.

Where do I start?  First off, the place is overrun with religious extremists.  When my husband cut the grass on Sundays, fundies would stop in their tracks and glare at him, and sometimes actually have the nerve to tell him that he was wrong to work on the Lord's Day.  This happened on numerous occasions.  Better him than me, because he has a lot more restraint than I do.

Philadelphia has a church on every corner.  I never had anything like that happen to me when I grew up here, and nothing like that has happened since we fled here in January.  And, most likely, nothing like that ever will.

I developed a deep hatred for the ubiquitous "W" stickers and "Choose Life" license plates.  WRT the license plates, if the pro-lifers get one, why not the pro-choicers, as well as pro-marijuana groups, father's rights groups, animal rights groups, pro-animal testing groups, immigration reform groups, pro-open-borders groups, etc.?  Why wasn't everyone getting a shot?

The only economic "boom" was in jobs at malls, car lots and call centers.  Retirement is also a booming industry.  Doctors, personal injury attorneys, and funeral directors also do well.  My husband is a marketing copywriter.  No one in Jacksonville even knew what that is.  He did get a job offer to pitch carcasses into the furnace at a crematory, and along with the enraged fundies, a few people stopped while he was cutting grass to ask how much he charged.  I managed to snag legal secretarial work--at rates nearly half of what I'm making here in Philly.  In between temp jobs, I sold dog supplies at a mall kiosk.

$12.00/hour was considered an extraordinary amount of money.  The locals justified this by claiming, "The cost of living isn't that high here."  While that's true, it's not low enough for an adult to pay a mortgage on 12 bucks an hour.  This attitude probably explains why half the city looked like Tijuana, not racially but WRT all the trailer-park shantytowns, one of which was right down the street from our house.  There was a street less than a mile away called Gano Avenue that I fondly referred to as "Sex Offender Lane," because that's where they all go straight out of prison.

Socially and culturally, everyone lived like they were 98 years old.  A BIG NIGHT OUT consisted of a trip to a strip mall.  When a large strip mall opened up, it was FRONT-PAGE NEWS for a month.  No one could get over the fact that Jacksonville finally had a Cheesecake Factory and a Sharper Image.

As I mentioned above, last month we moved just south of Philadelphia, to Delaware.  Delaware isn't the most happening place on Earth, but it is light-years ahead of Jacksonville.  People here wouldn't go bonkers over the opening of a new mall.  Nobody thinks that $12.00/hour is an extraordinary wage; even the Section 8 people don't think that.  There is a nice mix of conservatism and liberalism that works to mitigate the fringe elements on each side.  The cost of living is the same as it is in Florida.

Within a month of arrival, I got a job in Philly where I earn more in three days than I did in Jacksonville in a week.  I take a train into the city, therefore eliminating worries of car breakdowns that lead to missed time from work.  My husband's freelance copywriting business is taking off, and I continue to develop my giftware web store.  We hate the winter weather, the car inspections, and the Eastern Time Zone (Laker games don't come on until 10:30 p.m.).  We like, or at least are content with, everything else.  We no longer feel like we're unwelcome strangers in a foreign country.

DadaOrwell

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Re: NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2006, 07:16:42 AM »
From NHfree.com

Manchester, NH
6/2/06

Bearing pitchforks, signs and pistols, twenty-five demonstrators got what they were after Thursday at Manchester District Court.

The City of Manchester decided to drop charges against two libertarian activists its officers arrested in February.

Russell Kanning and Kat Dillon of Keene were carrying anti-Federal signs on Feb. 8 at a bus stop across the street from the Radisson Hotel, where President Bush was later scheduled to speak.  Secret Service agents, then Manchester Police, ordered them to move into a nearby "Free Speech Zone" where demonstrators were being herded.  They refused and were promptly arrested.

City solicitor Gregg Muller told reporters he dropped the case because he did not have a Secret Service agent he could call to testify against the couple.

Muller, Manchester Police and local Secret Service agents had been the brunt of unhappy phone calls and angry signs since the arrests occurred.  Today's demonstrators sported placards reading "All NH is a Free Speech Zone" and sparred verbally with police, who seemed caught off guard by the size of the protest.  Two attempted to enter the courthouse with pitchforks and check them at the metal detector.  Upon arriving at the security checkpoint, one demonstrator announced that he wished to check a firearm at the entrance, then shocked police by producing four pistols, butt first. 

Manchester Police returned three of the weapons, then informed him that one of the guns was "suspicious" and called the ATF to report him.  They then returned the fourth weapon but informed him that they were initiating an investigation to determine if he had broken any laws. 

As for Dillon and Kanning, they have returned home and say they are invigorated by the experience.  But Dillon says she has at least one gripe:

"No one apologized to us about the arrest."

Sources:

Union Leader:  http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/kat_rus.pdf

NHfree.com forum discussion: 
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=670f13e36f6de0656b725827076a587b&topic=3063.315